eredien: Dancing Dragon (Default)
[personal profile] eredien
I've been reading this piece about the Eddie Long scandal [summary: yet another anti-gay pastor accused of having gay sex with young adults in his pastoral care], and how the idea of the "prosperity gospel" of Long's church feeds into the scandal, over at Ta-Nehisi Coates' blog (the piece itself is written by Coates' friend Jelani Cobb though it's on Coates' blog).

In the comment thread there, people have been discussing the idea, the historical roots and the absurdities, of the "prosperity gospel" idea. For those of you not up on your Christian dogma and theology, this is basically the idea that you should pray to god for literal wealth, which makes you better able to reflect the glory of God to others who see you and know you've got it together because of God, which reflects well on God, etc. This great Chick-tract-esque comic about "Supply-Side Jesus," co-authored by Al Franken, pretty much sums up the whole movement.

Another commenter, Maretha2, summed up a dissertation she'd edited, giving a concise summary of the historical and social reasons why White Christians and African-American Christians interpreted, and still interpret, the idea of the "prosperity gospel" somewhat differently. Of the African-American interpretation of the "prosperity gospel," she wrote, The world says you can't get ahead--but with God you're more than a Conqueror. And the King wants his children to live well--it reflects well on God if his children aren't poor and pitiful.

And I thought about that, and realized how and why that theological idea,
it reflects well on God if his children aren't poor and pitiful, was drummed into me as a child in church in terms of clothing and appearance. I've never quite believed it, and always thought it patently ridiculous, but the conflict between this "it reflects well on God if you dress up for church" idea I was taught and how I actually felt is, as far as I can tell, pretty much the entire root of my conflicted thoughts about clothes, and my ambivalence about and joy in clothes, and a lot of my ambivalence and conflicted thoughts about the beauty inherent in my own body. I feel like I've just dug up one huge dandelion, and can see how ridiculously long the root was.


it reflects well on God if his children aren't poor and pitiful

And this, this exactly, is where I lose the thread of the argument that the prosperity gospel people are making. It's where I've always lost the thread, even as a child, being told that I had to dress up to show respect for God. It seemed to me that God would know respect whether it was dressed in old jeans or sequined gowns, because It wasn't looking at anybody's clothes. It didn't even have eyes to see them: God's eyes saw so deep that they seemed to have a different structure meant for looking at different things, like the eyes of bees, or the eyes of fish in the black parts of the ocean--shining themselves, to catch the light from the dark.

I cannot see why people think that God is always thinking of clothes and how wearing well-made, beautiful clothes to church--or having a beautiful house, or a freshly washed un-dented car, or a boat, is a great way to show respect to God and give It glory. If you read the text, clothes seem like they were man's last-minute, fearful invention to cover up a beautiful God-created body in the first place, in the hope that decorating one's body with a few leaves and standing very still behind some vine would camouflage, literally hide, one's self. And that impulse to hide the body in order to hide the self was new--that's what God starts off asking about. "Who told you you were naked?": it seems like people themselves hardly even knew they had a body, until they had the impulse to clothe it.

That's one reason that I cannot, in my possibly two-sizes-too-small heart, trust Catholicism, although I have trusted a few good Catholics and there are still more out there I am sure I haven't met yet; it seems to me like clothing is more of a necessary evil than something to embroider with the wealth that we are told to leave behind.

Of course, I too am a hypocrite; I care a lot about clothes--especially when they make me feel joyful, more loving to myself, more kind to myself, more my true self in the eyes of other people. And I assume that this is the argument for Catholic vestments; it's part of the argument I've heard for vestments as a Protestant, anyway. And it may be true that those hats and shoes and stoles make my pastor, or the Pope, or the people sitting in the pews, feel more kind and joyful to themselves and others. But I've never yet found any shirt to make me feel as much myself as my skin does; me without thinking or trying. And I've never written a poem about the glow of a streetlight shining on someone's nightgown, or fallen in love with someone because of the way they looked when the yellow afternoon sun caught their jeans just like that.

"Let the little children come to me," he says, and who is poorer or more needy--or more often running around naked--than children?

If God really cares that much about my clothes, he's going to be awfully disappointed; I'm a bit of a messy eater, and the detergent manufacturers' claims about getting out all those grease and berry stains are just not true.

(This post makes me want to be the literal naturist it seems I already am philosophically and theologically, but I'm too often scared about how I look in my own skin, while I have no problem waxing rhapsodic over the skins of other people. And besides, it gets really cold here in the winter).

--
And that is why I am going to get a tattoo of a deep-sea fish on my body, as soon as I can afford it, to remind myself, when I forget, that I am beautiful, until I don't forget anymore. Because I am beautiful, and I deserve to know that.

I might put some of the text in, too, about the bees or about the fish or about "didn't even have the eyes to see them," but I haven't decided on that yet. However, I am definitely getting a fish. I haven't decided which fish yet, though. Can you help me? (Vote is non-binding, since this is going to be on my body and not yours.) :D

Candidates include both glowing and non-glowing fish:
- Lanternfish
- Anglerfish (though maybe not, because damn those things are toothy)
- Daggertooth, which looks pretty awesome (this is a new species of Daggertooth discovered in '08 in Antarctica. The record-setting specimen of the Nettled Daggertooth species was hermaphroditic.)
- A Barracudina
- Rattail
- Tripod Fish [this is a video]
- Coelacanth, a fish of which I am terminally fond
- Stoplight Loosejaw, a kind of deep-sea dragonfish which hunts with a red (essentially invisible) beam of light and synthesizes chorophyll from its prey in order to see [damn!]

Feel free to point me toward other deep sea fish I've missed here (fish only please, no other deep-sea glowy things. Stingrays are ok, since technically they are fish. Also, I like stingrays).

In short: there's a seriously worthwhile discussion over at Coates' blog; go and read it!

(no subject)

28/9/10 11:11 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] lotusbiosm.livejournal.com
While I'm not a fan of the prosperity gospel, I will say that for me, part of the reason for dressing up for church (or wherever) isn't about God. It's about you. It's about headspace. It's the same reason that they made the athletes dress up at school before games. The clothes you're wearing affect your attitude, and for a lot of people, dressing up makes them more serious and respectful. You can worship just as well naked or in jeans as you can in a frilly dress, just as you don't really need the physical structure of a church to worship. But the physical trappings help people create the mental space they need. There is something to be said for the way that even just the act of putting on those clothes helps a person transition from their everyday role into the role of priest or worshipper. If you've ever worn a uniform or acted in a play, you can understand how the clothes you wear affect your behavior.

If you've ever read The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, I always think of that when I read something like this. The idea that if you were saved, you'd behave in XYZ way, so you act that way in order to give the outward appearance of being saved, which is why the Puritans were so keen on hard work.

I can understand, from an evangelical point of view, that prosperity is a good recruiting tool: "look at what my God has given me; he'll give it to you too!"

(no subject)

28/9/10 12:39 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] kaypendragon.livejournal.com
This. Dressing for church makes one act churchy.

I hadn't been exposed to the idea that one dressed up for church to make God look good before now. This is probably a good thing, as I likely would have looked at said person with bafflement and politely asked them why God cared what I was wearing. And now, I'm having visions of a E! magazine God comparing fashion choices with all of yo's cherubim.

Re: Quick & Important Note

28/9/10 15:25 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] kaypendragon.livejournal.com
Gender-neutral pronoun. My husband adopted it and uses it all the time. It's convenient once in a while.

Re: Quick & Important Note

29/9/10 04:24 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] lotusbiosm.livejournal.com
not to speak for [livejournal.com profile] kaypendragon (because I could be wrong, it's been known to happen), but I interpreted the pronoun in that sentence to have God as the antecedent. Thereby applying a gender-neutral pronoun to God.

(no subject)

29/9/10 04:20 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] lotusbiosm.livejournal.com
the "you" in that part of my original comment was a rhetorical you, not a specific [livejournal.com profile] eredien you.

(no subject)

29/9/10 05:50 (UTC)
kelkyag: notched triangle signature mark in light blue on yellow (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] kelkyag
for me, dressing up in "dress clothes" always made me itchy and overly warm

This used to be true for me; it is rarely true now that I am choosing my own dress-up clothes and the occasions on which I wear them. As [livejournal.com profile] lotusbiosm says, I find that what I'm wearing (like many other aspects of my environment) affects my state of mind. When I was a kid, those clothes told me I was being made to do something I didn't want to do. Now, they tell me that this is an occasion that I have chosen to note as important and worth extra preparations (which also provide time for the corresponding mental transition), be it serious or celebratory (generally different clothes!). I still wind up overly warm occasionally, though, as I am fond of velvet. :) In any case, the associations exist in my head, and some of them are useful, and with effort I can edit them.

I don't know whether you *want* to take a different attitude towards dress-up clothes, but if you do, picking or making some that you find physically comfortable out for yourself, and wearing them to events you enjoy and/or value might be somewhere to start.

(no subject)

29/9/10 16:41 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] jessiehl.livejournal.com
I agree with this whole comment, except for maybe the velvet part (I don't have strong feelings one way or the other about velvet).

Also, I increasingly thing that Ta-Nehisi Coates' blog has the best comment section of any blog on the Internet.

(no subject)

28/9/10 11:26 (UTC)
ext_413051: (Default)
Posted by [identity profile] taliabear.livejournal.com
I'm personally rather fond of the Coelacanth as well - always neat when something we thought was gone forever reappears.

(no subject)

28/9/10 12:02 (UTC)
zdenka: Yellow leaves. (all will yet be well)
Posted by [personal profile] zdenka
God's eyes saw so deep that they seemed to have a different structure meant for looking at different things, like the eyes of bees, or the eyes of fish in the black parts of the ocean--shining themselves, to catch the light from the dark.

I like that.

That Tripod fish is pretty amazing. I also think the Rattail is pretty, in spite of its name. Though really, my strongest opinion on your tattoo is that you should think it is awesome. :-)

I think when praying with other people one should consider the weaknesses of other people and not, say, pray naked if that would be distracting for them, but when praying alone (or with people who would not find it distracting), there is no reason not to do what is most comfortable/conducive to prayer for oneself.

(no subject)

28/9/10 18:05 (UTC)
zdenka: Miriam with a tambourine, text "I will sing." (curious)
Posted by [personal profile] zdenka
I'm not as familiar with the New Testament -- can you remind me what the praying alone in your closet thing is? Is it about praying to/for God, rather than ostentatiously?

[Disclaimer: I am not speaking for anyone other than my not-very-observant self and my own experience.]

Judaism has prayers that one is supposed to say alone and prayers that one is supposed to say in a group. Some prayers one is not allowed to say unless there's a group of at least ten Jewish men (or Jewish adults, if you're Reform). So in that sense, group prayer is a joint effort. But there's also a mystical thread/aspect, and there are lots of charming Chasidic stories that focus on joy and sincerity at the expense of rule-following. Um, yeah. I will stop wildly overgeneralizing now, at least until I have a better idea of what you're asking.

Yeah, naked in New England is usually not the way to go. :-)

(no subject)

4/10/10 18:32 (UTC)
zdenka: Miriam with a tambourine, text "I will sing." (curious)
Posted by [personal profile] zdenka
If you've heard the term "minyan," it means a prayer quorum of ten Jews/Jewish men.

Thanks for the link. I think that praying/being religious ostentatiously hasn't been as much of an issue for Judaism during most of its recent history, because Jews were more likely to be persecuted than praised for doing that. The Jews that I hang out with are mostly not very observant, so I can't tell you about how that issue is dealt with nowadays. The being pious in public vs. in private issue reminds me of Maimonides and his eight degrees of charity, though.

(no subject)

28/9/10 12:58 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] blondestwolf.livejournal.com
I'm with [livejournal.com profile] taliabear, the Coelacanth is really an awesome fish and I like the rediscovery aspect! I also thought that the daggertooth looked really cool in that photo, I could imagine it as a tattoo.

(no subject)

28/9/10 13:29 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] krinndnz.livejournal.com
(A) Go team coelacanth!
(B) I too am violently allergic to the prosperity gospel, although I think I wound up with a slightly different reaction than yours.

(no subject)

28/9/10 20:02 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] ab3nd.livejournal.com
I'm guessing it was similar to mine, as that icon is a symbol for (A|a)theism.

(no subject)

28/9/10 15:53 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] doma.livejournal.com
I'm trying to figure out my opinions towards dressing up for church. I think my own attitude has always been something like, "I have a hard enough time making myself get up in the morning and I can't believe God cares." My mother was adamant that we dress up, but I think her attitude was half, "You should show respect for God. You wouldn't go meet the President in jeans," and half, "People will think badly of me because I didn't make you dress up."

(no subject)

28/9/10 16:27 (UTC)
sovay: (Lord Peter Wimsey: passion)
Posted by [personal profile] sovay
And that is why I am going to get a tattoo of a deep-sea fish on my body, as soon as I can afford it, to remind myself, when I forget, that I am beautiful, until I don't forget anymore. Because I am beautiful, and I deserve to know that.

I approve of this very much.

The coelacanth is always favorite; otherwise I'd go for the rattail or the daggertooth.

(no subject)

28/9/10 16:28 (UTC)
zeeth_kyrah: A glowing white and blue anthropomorphic horse stands before a pink and blue sky. (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] zeeth_kyrah
From Wikipedia's article on deep sea fish, I'd also add the cookiecutter shark, and the viperfish. But I like the look of the daggertooth, especially curled like that.

(no subject)

28/9/10 16:38 (UTC)
ext_76029: red dragon (beauty/nature)
Posted by [identity profile] copperwolf.livejournal.com
I don't see much mention of unusual eyes except for the stoplight loosejaw, which sounds like a very interesting animal.

(no subject)

28/9/10 17:06 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] gaudior.livejournal.com
Coelacanths are awesome.

On the dressing for church-- I can very much see [livejournal.com profile] lotusbiosm and [livejournal.com profile] kaypendragon's points, that what you're wearing can change how you feel. And, if your formal clothes match your own understanding of "this is myself at my best and my most serious," then dressing up in them would help you reach that state of reverence and awe. Of course, if your clothes feel more to you like "I am expressing a gender which isn't mine" or "I look ugly in this" or "I am ridiculous," then it's not going to work very well.

I think the trick is coming up with some form of "best clothes" which make you feel actually your best. I've been working hard, on and off, on my best "therapist outfits"-- clothes which will express my professional self, the me with the compassion and wisdom and good sense and strong backbone and intelligence and sense of humor and perserverence and knowledge of the DSM-- without being actively not-me. I'm much more comfortable in jeans and a tight tank top, but that doesn't help me get into the right head-space the same way.

(no subject)

29/9/10 16:46 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] jessiehl.livejournal.com
Along these lines, it was amazing just how much my attitude toward dressing up changed after I graduated from college and started working (the first time I had both control over my own clothing choices and enough money to buy dressy clothes).

Your whole comment, minus the therapist-specific parts, resonates with me.

(no subject)

28/9/10 17:56 (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] fiddledragon.livejournal.com
Stoplight Loosejaw, a kind of deep-sea dragonfish which hunts with a red (essentially invisible) beam of light and synthesizes chorophyll from its prey in order to see [damn!]

*awe* I don't know that that's one that I'd vote for as a tatoo, but wow.

I'm also rather fond of the tripod fish and coelocanth.

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