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28/3/11 17:19 (UTC)
eredien: Dancing Dragon (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] eredien
So, I've been rereading this comment and thinking about this, and I'm wondering if you would expand on what you're thinking and saying here.

I don't think of the word "heteronormativity" as some kind of slur on heterosexual people or the large and varied set of heterosexual sexual behaviors and practices, and have never seen it used as such, but that doesn't mean it's not one (it's totally possible for a word to be used in academic contexts and carry negative connotations at the same time; academia isn't a shield admitting only the purest ideals); it just means I'm unaware of the problematic usage you're pointing out.

I've generally seen "heteronormativity" used mostly in academic gender contexts to refer to the large and varied set of heterosexual sexual behaviors and practices practiced by heterosexual people, and the normative cultural implications and baggage those practices carry: the assumption that heterosexuality and heterosexual behavior is a norm.

I guess what I'm getting at is: I don't think I was using "heterosexual normativity" as opposed to "heteronormativity" as a deliberate word choice on my part, but you seem to think I was. I wanted to clarify that I wasn't; your kudos are misplaced. (I shouldn't get those kudos even if it *had* been a deliberate choice, but I definitely shouldn't be getting them here, since I'm totally unaware of the apparently problematic implications of my word choice).

Though I can start to guess at why "heteronormativity" might be problematic (there isn't just one set of heterosexual behaviors that is normative for even heterosexual people, for example), I don't see the whole picture (I can't see how "heterosexual normativity" would challenge that problematic assumption). I know that any guesses I make are only going to be incomplete at best and actively erroneous at worst.

Since it does seem there is some kind of controversy, this is a big hole in my knowledge; it's embarrassing to be writing and thinking about gender and not even really be aware enough of this controversy to make my word choice count (as a writer, that's a really big problem). That's what's most worrying to me--I haven't come across any writings or thoughts on this word choice or construct before. It's possible I just haven't read widely enough.

Could you point me to some resources? I usually wouldn't ask that, because it's my job to try and educate myself, except that in my searches I haven't been able to find much of a controversy over the word to educate myself about. "Heteronormativity as a slur," "heteronormativity vs. hetersexual normativity," "heteronormative problematic language," etc. haven't turned up much of anything other than
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<a [...] problematic.>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

So, I've been rereading this comment and thinking about this, and I'm wondering if you would expand on what you're thinking and saying here.

I don't think of the word "heteronormativity" as some kind of slur on heterosexual people or the large and varied set of heterosexual sexual behaviors and practices, and have never seen it used as such, but that doesn't mean it's not one (it's totally possible for a word to be used in academic contexts and carry negative connotations at the same time; academia isn't a shield admitting only the purest ideals); it just means I'm unaware of the problematic usage you're pointing out.

I've generally seen "heteronormativity" used mostly in academic gender contexts to refer to the large and varied set of heterosexual sexual behaviors and practices practiced by heterosexual people, and the normative cultural implications and baggage those practices carry: the assumption that heterosexuality and heterosexual behavior is a norm.

I guess what I'm getting at is: I don't think I was using "heterosexual normativity" as opposed to "heteronormativity" as a deliberate word choice on my part, but you seem to think I was. I wanted to clarify that I wasn't; your kudos are misplaced. (I shouldn't get those kudos even if it *had* been a deliberate choice, but I definitely shouldn't be getting them here, since I'm totally unaware of the apparently problematic implications of my word choice).

Though I can start to guess at why "heteronormativity" might be problematic (there isn't just one set of heterosexual behaviors that is normative for even heterosexual people, for example), I don't see the whole picture (I can't see how "heterosexual normativity" would challenge that problematic assumption). I know that any guesses I make are only going to be incomplete at best and actively erroneous at worst.

Since it does seem there is some kind of controversy, this is a big hole in my knowledge; it's embarrassing to be writing and thinking about gender and not even really be aware enough of this controversy to make my word choice count (as a writer, that's a really big problem). That's what's most worrying to me--I haven't come across any writings or thoughts on this word choice or construct before. It's possible I just haven't read widely enough.

Could you point me to some resources? I usually wouldn't ask that, because it's my job to try and educate myself, except that in my searches I haven't been able to find much of a controversy over the word to educate myself about. "Heteronormativity as a slur," "heteronormativity vs. hetersexual normativity," "heteronormative problematic language," etc. haven't turned up much of anything other than <a href="http://xploragen.blogspot.com/2009/03/heteronormative.html>people saying things like</a>: "This is the problem, then, with heteronormativity: it takes cultural constructs and pretends they are natural, thereby marking all other possibilities as "unnatural," "deviant," "abnormal," none of which have a positive ring to them in the slightest," which honestly I personally can't disagree with and don't find problematic.

I did find <a href="http://blogs.theeagleonline.com/wingin-it/2011/02/how-many-ways-can-we-be-normative/">this article</a>, but IMO that's somebody not getting the idea that heteronormativity is not merely "the idea that society is setup with norms and values that align sex, sexuality and gender roles," but is instead the idea that those "norms and values" default to assumptions of heterosexuality and heterosexual behaviors, which defaults to creating the assumption that heterosexuality and heterosexual behaviors are 'normal,' and all other gendered ways of being/acting are 'abnormal.'

I don't think that's what you're talking about, either--so, can you please clarify?

Also, if you are still living in Somerville, I'd love to hang out with you sometime.
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