![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
End-Runs
So, the Dean of Admissions at Bryn Mawr (whose name and email can probably be found publicly, but I won't post right here) wrote back to me. She is probably pretty busy, so I appreciate that it took less than a month for her to reply. (I still haven't heard back from Smith's group, which isn't surprising, as I now realize they are almost all in finals or on vacation).
Some good news: BMC, based on the Transgender Task Force recommendations, apparently already planned on making a public website that "[articulates] just these policies and practices [ie, those regarding transgendered students and admissions]. [...] You will be pleased to know that the new Dean of the Undergraduate College has reviewed the Task Force recommendations, and has made this website a priority for the coming summer."
Conclusion #1: Yay. This is necessary. It's both good practice and good news they will be articulating their stance in public. It's possible such a public articulation wasn't necessary in 2000 (I wouldn't bet on it), but it's probably only going to become more necessary as the century goes on, which can only be a good thing. If I'd waited another six months, there would probably have been a website actually talking about some of this stuff, in public. That's a good thing.
Another good thing: The Dean has said she will forward my info and my desire to help out to the people who are already involved in dealing with these issues.
Conclusion #2: It looks like it's too late to get in on the ground floor of Transgender Task Force stuff for me, but it looks like there's an elevator going up, and there is still Useful Stuff Being Decided and Done.
A third good thing: "How an individual self identifies in terms of gender, or any changes in self-identification while a student is enrolled here are personal matters and not something the College tracks. As I hope you experienced, our students tend to be exceptionally accepting of each others' differences and we in the administration try to create as healthy and supportive an environment as we can for all our students."
Conclusion #3: Possibly, it's silly to list this as a good thing, because honestly it's a pretty basic expectation of human dignity, but not all colleges do this, so I'm going to give them props (although, apparently, if you self-identify as kinky while at the college, individual classes of alumni may not feel bound by creating 'as healthy and supportive an environment' as they can... ;P)
...But here's what I consider to be a grammatical end-run around the actual question I asked: "Bryn Mawr's admissions policy as a women's college is to admit female students only. If it is not clear that an applicant to the College is female, we would approach the situation on an individual basis to gain a better understanding of the student's circumstances. However, our policy to admit female students only would not change."
Conclusion: I was an English major, so I'm already inclined to parse sentences for minutae; and everyone I know from college, including myself, learned how to be a better critical thinker there even if they were already decent when they came in. If they didn't think I could see that they elegantly sidestepped my question, or hoped I wouldn't ask about it...well, let's just say that I hope they expected this line of detailed questioning from one of their own alumna. They should have especially expected it from an alum who has multiple kinds of personal investment in the cause of the college and gender equity, and actively wants to donate her precious time to both causes, and so is going to make darn sure those causes are actually going to be advanced before committing a lot of time to advancing them.
If they didn't expect such a pointed reply (perhaps they were hoping I'd accept the studied phrasings and implications of the sentences in the letter, from which arise answers of an almost elegant incompleteness), that's a shame.
Frankly, I expected it to be a blanket "no way, we don't admit MTF students," so I am pretty psyched that there is the possibility that BMC and its admissions office might instead choose to deal with similar situations on a case-by-case basis. However, the answer given obviously and almost totally sidesteps the question at hand: if your "policy is to admit female students only," how do you define "female," and make that decision on a case-by-case basis? For that matter, how do you decide if "it is not clear" that some individual applicant to the college may or may not "be female?"
I would *love* to see a driven young transgender woman just get admitted and study and graduate without anyone ever noticing or caring; it would be fantastic (and also fantastically fraught, though for all I know somebody's already done it, and I just haven't heard about it). See also: “Well, if I have no way of telling, the person wouldn’t be in violation...I mean, if you can’t tell, what’s the difference?"
Words aren't always the same thing as answers.
This is the email that I wrote in reply.
Hello there, [name]! Thank you so much for writing back to clarify. I am happy to hear that the Transgender Task Force's recommendations will be reviewed and updated on the website this summer! If there is any way that I can help the Transgender Task Force or the admissions office or indeed anyone involved with making these kinds of recommendations or decisions, now or in the future, I would be thrilled to help out. Please definitely let me know if I can be of assistance; you can email me at the below address or, if you like, call: [number].
In trying to understand your answer regarding Bryn Mawr's admissions policy on admitting "female students only," I am still running up against the fact that it is not clear to me how Bryn Mawr's admissions office defines "female students" (as obviously, there are many understandings of femininity, possibly as many as there are individual human beings). I very much appreciate the fact that in cases where a potential student's gender identity is in question, admissions deals with that applicant's admission on a case-by-case basis.
However, in the case of MTF transgender applicants, would such a clarification process would revolve around the potential student's pre-existing social/personal identity as a woman, such that MTF transgender applicants might be accepted to Bryn Mawr on a case-by-case basis? Or does "our policy to admit female students only" mean that such potential students would be denied application?
In short, does the definition of "female student" that Bryn Mawr and the BMC admissions office use include MTF transgender applicants by virtue of those applicants' personal and cultural understanding of themselves as women? Or does Bryn Mawr's definition of "female student" in use during the admissions process automatically exclude MTF transgender applicants, by virtue of the fact that such applicants possessed (or may still possess) male sex organs, and perhaps were originally socialized as men?
Or are such things decided strictly on a case-by-case basis?
Thanks so much! I hope to hear back from you soon.
Sincerely,
[Eredien] (BMC '04)
[email]
Some good news: BMC, based on the Transgender Task Force recommendations, apparently already planned on making a public website that "[articulates] just these policies and practices [ie, those regarding transgendered students and admissions]. [...] You will be pleased to know that the new Dean of the Undergraduate College has reviewed the Task Force recommendations, and has made this website a priority for the coming summer."
Conclusion #1: Yay. This is necessary. It's both good practice and good news they will be articulating their stance in public. It's possible such a public articulation wasn't necessary in 2000 (I wouldn't bet on it), but it's probably only going to become more necessary as the century goes on, which can only be a good thing. If I'd waited another six months, there would probably have been a website actually talking about some of this stuff, in public. That's a good thing.
Another good thing: The Dean has said she will forward my info and my desire to help out to the people who are already involved in dealing with these issues.
Conclusion #2: It looks like it's too late to get in on the ground floor of Transgender Task Force stuff for me, but it looks like there's an elevator going up, and there is still Useful Stuff Being Decided and Done.
A third good thing: "How an individual self identifies in terms of gender, or any changes in self-identification while a student is enrolled here are personal matters and not something the College tracks. As I hope you experienced, our students tend to be exceptionally accepting of each others' differences and we in the administration try to create as healthy and supportive an environment as we can for all our students."
Conclusion #3: Possibly, it's silly to list this as a good thing, because honestly it's a pretty basic expectation of human dignity, but not all colleges do this, so I'm going to give them props (although, apparently, if you self-identify as kinky while at the college, individual classes of alumni may not feel bound by creating 'as healthy and supportive an environment' as they can... ;P)
...But here's what I consider to be a grammatical end-run around the actual question I asked: "Bryn Mawr's admissions policy as a women's college is to admit female students only. If it is not clear that an applicant to the College is female, we would approach the situation on an individual basis to gain a better understanding of the student's circumstances. However, our policy to admit female students only would not change."
Conclusion: I was an English major, so I'm already inclined to parse sentences for minutae; and everyone I know from college, including myself, learned how to be a better critical thinker there even if they were already decent when they came in. If they didn't think I could see that they elegantly sidestepped my question, or hoped I wouldn't ask about it...well, let's just say that I hope they expected this line of detailed questioning from one of their own alumna. They should have especially expected it from an alum who has multiple kinds of personal investment in the cause of the college and gender equity, and actively wants to donate her precious time to both causes, and so is going to make darn sure those causes are actually going to be advanced before committing a lot of time to advancing them.
If they didn't expect such a pointed reply (perhaps they were hoping I'd accept the studied phrasings and implications of the sentences in the letter, from which arise answers of an almost elegant incompleteness), that's a shame.
Frankly, I expected it to be a blanket "no way, we don't admit MTF students," so I am pretty psyched that there is the possibility that BMC and its admissions office might instead choose to deal with similar situations on a case-by-case basis. However, the answer given obviously and almost totally sidesteps the question at hand: if your "policy is to admit female students only," how do you define "female," and make that decision on a case-by-case basis? For that matter, how do you decide if "it is not clear" that some individual applicant to the college may or may not "be female?"
I would *love* to see a driven young transgender woman just get admitted and study and graduate without anyone ever noticing or caring; it would be fantastic (and also fantastically fraught, though for all I know somebody's already done it, and I just haven't heard about it). See also: “Well, if I have no way of telling, the person wouldn’t be in violation...I mean, if you can’t tell, what’s the difference?"
Words aren't always the same thing as answers.
This is the email that I wrote in reply.
Hello there, [name]! Thank you so much for writing back to clarify. I am happy to hear that the Transgender Task Force's recommendations will be reviewed and updated on the website this summer! If there is any way that I can help the Transgender Task Force or the admissions office or indeed anyone involved with making these kinds of recommendations or decisions, now or in the future, I would be thrilled to help out. Please definitely let me know if I can be of assistance; you can email me at the below address or, if you like, call: [number].
In trying to understand your answer regarding Bryn Mawr's admissions policy on admitting "female students only," I am still running up against the fact that it is not clear to me how Bryn Mawr's admissions office defines "female students" (as obviously, there are many understandings of femininity, possibly as many as there are individual human beings). I very much appreciate the fact that in cases where a potential student's gender identity is in question, admissions deals with that applicant's admission on a case-by-case basis.
However, in the case of MTF transgender applicants, would such a clarification process would revolve around the potential student's pre-existing social/personal identity as a woman, such that MTF transgender applicants might be accepted to Bryn Mawr on a case-by-case basis? Or does "our policy to admit female students only" mean that such potential students would be denied application?
In short, does the definition of "female student" that Bryn Mawr and the BMC admissions office use include MTF transgender applicants by virtue of those applicants' personal and cultural understanding of themselves as women? Or does Bryn Mawr's definition of "female student" in use during the admissions process automatically exclude MTF transgender applicants, by virtue of the fact that such applicants possessed (or may still possess) male sex organs, and perhaps were originally socialized as men?
Or are such things decided strictly on a case-by-case basis?
Thanks so much! I hope to hear back from you soon.
Sincerely,
[Eredien] (BMC '04)
[email]
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
While I find the college's "hiding" of FTM transgendered students/alums problematic, at least the problems that arise seem to be generally due to their gender identity becoming accepted by the administration (though of course the fact that that identity is perceived as shameful is itself shameful).
They generally play down or hide their GLBT communities, too, which is just foolish: assuaging parents' or even students' fears about queer people on campus as prospectives, only to plunge their daughters-as-students unprepared into a college environment pervaded by a small but outspoken and integral queer culture, has lasting repercussions for things like their students' peace of mind, not to mention the colleges' retention rates.
It seems like they really, really don't want to accept FTM student's gender identity at all, which is just flat-out insulting, and also damaging to the college's main goal, which is acknowledging the experiences and furthering the education of all women. Awfully hard to do that when you seem to fail to acknowledge, first, the experience of MTF trans applicants as women. I mean, would they even think of saying to any other woman applicant, "you're not really a woman; we won't consider your application?" Hell no, they'd be sued before tomorrow--and they'd consider it an insult to their very own mission and feminist values to even think of asking that question.
So...why don't they consider that question equally insulting to the applicant and to themselves as a feminist institution when it is used to screen or reject MTF transgender applicants? They should, and I was going to say that I don't know why they don't, but of course it's just transphobia.
I really hope I get to volunteer with the folks working on transgender issues at the college and work to change those, because until they're changed, I won't give my money, or my time on other issues (I won't for other organizations with such discriminatory policies, why exempt my alma mater? If anything, it's *more* important for me to do whatever I can to effect change there *because* it's so important to me; I'm not willing to give up so easily on something I care about so much and which gave so much to me. I hope they expect that I and others like me are fighting back about this because we care for women and institutions that honor women. I also think they're shooting themselves as women who care about womin the foot if they fail, as policy, to admit MTF transgendered students).
Anyway, I went into this in greater detail in earlier posts, if you want to read them; they're in my memories. Thanks for your support.
no subject
no subject
no subject
Exactly. They're reserving the right for themselves to do panty-checks, frankly -- and that's effectively barring trans women as applicants, because no one would want to submit herself to that.
no subject
The main difference I see is that the Maine legislators haven't really thought the thing through and are getting confused in trying to, and are admitting that they're openly biased; the colleges seem to really be heavily invested in subtlety and deny their biases rather than investing in the same honesty they espouse and try and instill in their students. I find that disappointing and beneath them.
no subject
Yup, and if it gets that far, we'll probably see the same pseudo-scientific appeals to gender essentialism in both cases. The only different is that the women's college folks are likely to know some bigger words to use for couching their bigotry in science.
The main difference I see is that the Maine legislators haven't really thought the thing through and are getting confused in trying to, and are admitting that they're openly biased; the colleges seem to really be heavily invested in subtlety and deny their biases rather than investing in the same honesty they espouse and try and instill in their students. I find that disappointing and beneath them.
Eh, well, the people who administer institutions are all about self-perpetuation and have very little to do with the values of the people whose work they ostensibly support. That's an old story. We're just going to have to keep saying, "hey, those aren't our values, don't do that", over and over again.
no subject
Hello!
Re: Hello!
Feel free to contact me at dalbino83@yahoo.com to discuss anything you'd like. I'd be happy to be an ally for your work at BMC.
Donna
no subject
no subject